On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:20:41 -0500, ThomLove <ThomLovenetmail@netscape.net> wrote:
>Well, my experience in the CofS I've posted several times, and I just
>don't want to do it all again, at least not in any detail. I've been in
>the CofS for nearly 30 years, and I trained up to Class VIII, most of
>the courses two or three times. I've done all the internships up to that
>level. I've audited only-God-knows-how-many-thousands-of-hours in the SO
>HGCs. Many of those up in RTC and Int Management were pc's of mine, but
>this was years ago, so I don't know who is where now. Marc Yager was a
>pc of mine, which is the only name I can actually place in the
>management. Many RTCers were pcs of mine, many of them, including one of
>the recent Sr. C/Ss' of AO, Sandy W.
Sorry I hadn't read your earlier posts about your history. Gosh, maybe we know each other. Poor Marc Yager, last I heard he was under house arrest in a cottage out at Int. He's virtually disappeared now. And Sandy Wilhere is another tragic story. She had a serious automobile accident, after which Miscavige ordered her husband Greg to divorce her (he was Inspector General at the time, directly under DM) because she was too PTS and would be an enturbulating influence on Greg. DM busted her off Senior C/S Gold and stuck her in the galley as a cook. Greg ate at the table with DM and Shelly and Sandy wasn't even allowed to speak to him. I don't know what has happened to her since then.
>So I got to know a lot of them on their way up quite intimately. None of
>them were 'evil'. Most of them were actually quite nice and friendly,
>and very honest and excited, and were persons I would have been quite
>comfortable with as a senior. (some of them were my senior, as a matter
You're absolutely right, these people were bright, honest, good-hearted people. There is a weeding-out process that goes on at the top, as you may be aware. The only ones who can survive under a regime like Miscavige's are those who are willing to turn away from their own humanity and compassion for the sake of complying with orders that are directly counter to the very reasons they got into Scientology. I found myself in this utterly untenable position so I am familar with the threshhold one inevitably faces. DM was ordering me to do things that were directly contrary to the technology that I was in Scientology to apply. So what should I do? Comply with his orders, even though complying would require that I turn my back on the tech? Or refuse to comply, even though refusing would certainly mean dire punishment and the end of any thought of advancement in the Scientology ranks?
I chose the punishment. Losing my own integrity, selling out the tech, was not an option for me. But for some, the fear of punishment is too great, and the perks and creature comforts of a high position are too appealing. Make no mistake about it though; as far as I am concerned, once someone crosses that threshhold they are no longer a human being as far as I am concerned. They become something else. They become an inhuman monster.
Some of these people who started out as good people have crossed that threshhold, Thom, and I cannot in all good conscience give them the benefit of the doubt any more. I have seen what they are willing to do and it is horrifying.
>I've also met the SO Arrogants, those who have contempt and disdain for
>any other viewpoint than theirs. They were the potential crooks who may
>be of the sort to which you refer. Their idea of handling was via
>nullification and evaluation. Their comm cycle knew only wrath, and they
>destroyed everyone who didn't toe their line. These I knew quite
>intimately as well, and who I kept a special eye on when I had dealings
>with them outside of session, for obvious reasons.
The ones you call the "SO Arrogants" -- the real hard core ones -- have crossed that threshhold that I was describing earlier. Nowadays, it is DM who is forcing people to choose between being what they thought a Scientologist was supposed to be and becoming a ruthless monster who will follow whatever orders they are given. But I don't believe it started with DM. DM was personally trained by Hubbard in the latter years when Hubbard's mind was deteriorating.
I apologize to those Scientologists reading this who will feel I am insulting Hubbard, but I am afraid the documented evidence and eye-witness accounts of his behavior in Dunedin, then in New York, later at the confidential base in the California desert known by the handle "Rifle," and still later at the ranch in Creston show a consistent pattern of conduct which points to a deterioration of his sanity.
I know that DM is running the Scientology empire just as he believes Hubbard trained him to do. DM told me so countless times. Once he interrupted a screaming tirade of obscenities at the Executive Council at ASI when he realized I was horrified at his behavior. He turned to me and said, "Listen, Stacy, if you think I yell loudly, you should have heard the old man [his term of endearment for LRH]. When he got mad at someone you could hear him screaming for miles. I'll never be able to scream the way he used to."
For me this was a window into DM's pathetic psyche. He was like a frightened little child trying desperately to win the favor of his father, and it was clear to me that Hubbard had taken on the role of father for DM. But as much as I may understand, or at least think I understand, the underlying reasons for DM's pathological behavior, it doesn't change the fact that his behavior is pathological.
And it doesn't change the fact that he is able to turn formerly good people into criminals willing to do whatever they are told to appease this madman.
>DM and his crew I never knew personally, not really; the last I saw of
>them was when we went to see the original 'Highlander' movie in
>Hollywood one afternoon, a couple of decades ago. So, of them you could
>But, the vast majority of those 'up there' are not knowingly scamming
>anybody, and are sincerely trying to make it go right. Many leave, as
>they cannot tolerate the criminality, and they know they cannot change
>things from the inside. They are the ones out here in the FZone building
>up an Alternative Bridge. Many others just stay and do what they can
>given the condition they are in, and are not themselves involved in any
No, this is where we disagree. Thom, you can take a person who is sincerely trying to make things go right and transform them, through fear, abuse and punishment, into an uncaring, unfeeling automaton willing to do whatever they are told. I am afraid that this is what is now at the top of Scientology. I think DM was transformed in this way by Hubbard himself. (Others who witnessed DM's transformation may disagree with me on this and I would be interested to hear from those people. But that is my understanding, from the data I have.)
I think Marty Rathbun has been transformed into someone that DM can trust to do his bidding after years of abuse. He blew at one point trying to escape from DM but was brought back and put through a horrific RPF experience. Believe me, the RPF can transform a kind-hearted person into a monster. I have seen it happen with my own eyes. Kind-heartedness is viewed as "reasonableness" by Miscavige and it is not tolerated. Marty was a nice guy but he has been turned into a criminal by DM, and today you cannot find a trace of that formerly kind-hearted person. I have looked straight into his eyes and I have seen a bleak wasteland there. The old Marty is so buried that I am not sure he can ever be found again.
Mike Rinder is the same. Mike was a good person but to survive under DM's reign of terror he has had to become a monster, devoid of compassion and utterly without conscience. Norman Starkey is another one. Ben Shaw. Rick Moxon. There are others.
But again, I do not believe this horrific inhumanity began with DM, and I think this is an important point for Scientologists to come to terms with.
Mark Bunker is working on a videotaped interview of a person who was an intelligence operative in the Guardian's Office for years until it finally made him so sick he had to quit. Obviously, this lack of conscience at a certain echelon of Scientology is not something new to Miscavige' regime. It has existed at the top of Scientology for as long as Scientology has existed as an organization.
In the old days it was the Guardian's Office staff that were required to cross that threshhold from decency to corruption. Miscavige has successfully spread the myth that this ruthless corruption was coming from Mary Sue. But Mary Sue was only a loyal follower. Her actions reflected her husband's orders -- everyone in the Guardian's Office, including me, knew that. The orders for the break-ins and other illegal activities came directly from LRH through MSH and down the command lines to the Guardian's Office. The only reason LRH didn't go to jail himself after the 1977 FBI raid was that his wife and the indicted Guardian's Office staff were willing to cover up his involvement and take the rap for him.
So this ruthlessness that we see in DM is the same ruthlessness Hubbard possessed. It is my personal opinion that the ruthlessness exhibited by the Scientology organization is an extension of an aspect of Hubbard's own mind. I don't think it is the only aspect of his mind. I think he also had positive aspects. But this ruthlessness was certainly one aspect of this man. I am afraid I have to agree with Judge Breckinridge on this point. I think he put it very well.
This lack of conscience, lack of compassion, lack of human kindness -- this is the aspect of Scientology that has to go. I have no problem with any of the rest of Scientology, but this viciousness and deceit has to go. And for DM and the others who have crossed the threshold from decency to corruption, they will have to go before those who honestly want to use the Scientology technology to help themselves and others will be free to do so.
>The idea that those such as DM and NS could be so directly involved in
>knowingly destroying things I find a little incredible, but anything is
>possible. I've been surprised by the SO Arrogants before, and I could
>easily be surprised again.
I think the problem is that when one has sold one's soul to the extent DM, Norman and others have done in recent years (a Scientologist would say they have accumulated far too many overts), one tends to lose sight of the original ideals they may have embraced in the beginning. DM has wandered so far afield of whatever good he may have intended that at this point I am afraid his own corruption and fear for his own hide will override anything else.
Over to you.